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gardener6797
Guest
Hello all. In years past I have had good luck using the brining method for the Thanksgiving bird but I have read that salting is even better yet. Any input?
-Gardener
-Gardener
Cooking Forum
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jglass
New member
Jafo posted a recipe for herb salt that sounds good. He said he had good results with it.
Bon Appetit Herbed salt:
1/3 cup kosher salt
1 1/2 teaspoons dried rosemary
1 1/2 teaspoons dried rubbed sage
1 1/2 teaspoons dried thyme
1 teaspoon crushed black peppercorns
3 small bay leaves, coarsely torn
1 teaspoon finely grated lemon peel.
Mix all ingredients together. If you make ahead of time, then put lemon in only before using.
Rinse the turkey inside and out but DO NOT pat dry. Put Turkey into a roasting bag or pan that you can cover. Rub all over, inside and out with the salt mixture. Refrigerate for about 18 - 24 hours.
Preheat oven to 325 and put the rack in your oven to the lowest position.
Rinse the turkey inside and out and pat dry. Continue the way you would normally make your turkey.
Bon Appetit Herbed salt:
1/3 cup kosher salt
1 1/2 teaspoons dried rosemary
1 1/2 teaspoons dried rubbed sage
1 1/2 teaspoons dried thyme
1 teaspoon crushed black peppercorns
3 small bay leaves, coarsely torn
1 teaspoon finely grated lemon peel.
Mix all ingredients together. If you make ahead of time, then put lemon in only before using.
Rinse the turkey inside and out but DO NOT pat dry. Put Turkey into a roasting bag or pan that you can cover. Rub all over, inside and out with the salt mixture. Refrigerate for about 18 - 24 hours.
Preheat oven to 325 and put the rack in your oven to the lowest position.
Rinse the turkey inside and out and pat dry. Continue the way you would normally make your turkey.
jglass
New member
I think I am going to stick with brining. I plan to use this recipe.
Apple and Spice Brine
This is a good flavored sweet brine that imparts the flavors of apple, spice and citrus to the turkey. Simmer pices in the orange and apple juices for 15 minutes. Boil the sugar and salt in the water until dissolved. Cool both, combine, and refrigerate overnight before adding turkey.
1 gallon ---water
3 quarts --- apple juice
3 quarts --- orange juice
1 1/2 cups ---salt
1 1/2 cups ----brown sugar
10 whole ----cloves
1 tsp ----nutmeg
Apple and Spice Brine
This is a good flavored sweet brine that imparts the flavors of apple, spice and citrus to the turkey. Simmer pices in the orange and apple juices for 15 minutes. Boil the sugar and salt in the water until dissolved. Cool both, combine, and refrigerate overnight before adding turkey.
1 gallon ---water
3 quarts --- apple juice
3 quarts --- orange juice
1 1/2 cups ---salt
1 1/2 cups ----brown sugar
10 whole ----cloves
1 tsp ----nutmeg
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Chef_Jacob
Guest
JGlass,
You're right to stay with your brine. There is a big difference between just salting your meat, which will draw moisture to the surface of the protein through osmosis, dehydrating your turkey.
Classic brines, which originated in Scandinavia, usually contain 3%-6% salt by weight. At three percent salinity, the salt will start to dissolve some of the protein structure that supports the muscles filaments, and at about 5.5% it will start to dissolve some of the muscle filaments themselves. This is what allows the brining process to tenderize your meat.
Plus, the interaction of salt with protein allows the meat itself to hold more moisture, which the meat absorbs from the brine. Even though it will still loose about 20% moisture during the cooking process, the moisture loss of a brined meat is essentially cut in half. This is what allows the brining process to keep you meat moist.
And finally, the inward movement of salt into protein and the disruption of some of the protein structure, allows the meat to more easily absorb aromatic molecules found in herbs and spices. So if you add herbs and spices to your brine, it will have a much more flavorful effect on your protein then if you were to marinade it with the same herbs and spices but forgo the addition of salt.
So in short, you should stick with your brine, and not just simply salt your turkey. Hope this helped.
You're right to stay with your brine. There is a big difference between just salting your meat, which will draw moisture to the surface of the protein through osmosis, dehydrating your turkey.
Classic brines, which originated in Scandinavia, usually contain 3%-6% salt by weight. At three percent salinity, the salt will start to dissolve some of the protein structure that supports the muscles filaments, and at about 5.5% it will start to dissolve some of the muscle filaments themselves. This is what allows the brining process to tenderize your meat.
Plus, the interaction of salt with protein allows the meat itself to hold more moisture, which the meat absorbs from the brine. Even though it will still loose about 20% moisture during the cooking process, the moisture loss of a brined meat is essentially cut in half. This is what allows the brining process to keep you meat moist.
And finally, the inward movement of salt into protein and the disruption of some of the protein structure, allows the meat to more easily absorb aromatic molecules found in herbs and spices. So if you add herbs and spices to your brine, it will have a much more flavorful effect on your protein then if you were to marinade it with the same herbs and spices but forgo the addition of salt.
So in short, you should stick with your brine, and not just simply salt your turkey. Hope this helped.
Jafo232
New member
I have to disagree with you here. I thought the exact same thing, so I don't blame you. When I first read about salting the turkey I thought "Isn't that bird dry enough without doing that?"..
However, if you seal it in a plastic bag (oven bag) while salting, the moisture is reabsorbed into the bird along with the salt and spices. I used the recipe above for the first time about a month ago with some family and we were all loving it.
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gardener6797
Guest
Thanks for the input...it sounds like either method works, yet I'm not sure if you are saying that salting is better or if you think it is just another option
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Chef_Jacob
Guest
I'm going to have to disagree with the reasoning on that one. Salting the meat brings protein rich fluid to the surface as the salt then enters the protein cells to form a state of equilibrium through osmosis. Even if the plastic bag did allow the moisture that was originally drawn out of the turkey to be re-absorb back into the turkey, you'd really only be back to where you started before you salted the turkey in the first place.
The presence of the salt and the scientific principal of osmosis will force an equilibrium in the turkey to occur. This means the plainly salted turkey without the presence of an exterior source of moisture (ie. a brining solution), will actually hold less moisture than an unsalted turkey.
By the way, if you roast a turkey in a "roasting bag", you're not really roasting it but instead you're actually steam poaching. Just incase your were curious.
Cook Chatty Cathy
New member
Very Interesting, I thought I may brine our turkey this year, but now after reading all this I think I may just do it the way we have always done ours as it always turns out great, and I figure "Why try and fix something that aint' broken?"
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gardener6797
Guest
Thanks for all the feedback.......I think I may try salting another time, but for this Thanksgiving I'll stick with the brine....the input has been helpful.
Jafo232
New member
I'm going to have to disagree with the reasoning on that one. Salting the meat brings protein rich fluid to the surface as the salt then enters the protein cells to form a state of equilibrium through osmosis. Even if the plastic bag did allow the moisture that was originally drawn out of the turkey to be re-absorb back into the turkey, you'd really only be back to where you started before you salted the turkey in the first place.
The presence of the salt and the scientific principal of osmosis will force an equilibrium in the turkey to occur. This means the plainly salted turkey without the presence of an exterior source of moisture (ie. a brining solution), will actually hold less moisture than an unsalted turkey.
By the way, if you roast a turkey in a "roasting bag", you're not really roasting it but instead you're actually steam poaching. Just incase your were curious.
I am not sure I understand you here. How would you be back where you started? The moisture that goes back into the bird is now seasoned.
And cooking a turkey in a bag is blasphemy.
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Chef_Jacob
Guest
Hello all. In years past I have had good luck using the brining method for the Thanksgiving bird but I have read that salting is even better yet. Any input?
-Gardener
My original response was to answer Gardener's question. I assumed her "brining vs salting" dilema was primarily focused on making the turkey tender and flavorful at the same time. To achieve both of these goals, brining is far supperior to just salting with the addition of herbs.
So when I said that you would end up right back where you started, I was referring to moisture content in the turkey. Just salting the turkey and placing it in a bag will not add any more moisture, only seasoning. This is no different than any other dry method marinade out there; it's purpose is to provide flavor, not texture, (ie tenderness).
My true personal preferrance though is to break down the turkey while still raw, confit the legs, brine and slow roast the breasts. Use the carcas to make a roasted turkey stock, and use some of the stock for my gravy and save the rest for turkey soup. Not to mention, all this can be done way ahead of time (confit needs at least a weak to ripen) so you're cooking primarily side dish and reheating on the big day...more time with the family.
I'm glad we at least agree on cooking a turkey in a bag is "blaspheme." Maybe now that I've clarified my position, we'll find that our positions on brining and salting aren't really all that different.
Mama Mangia
Super Moderator
brine first, then give it a ride on the rotisserie
My rotisserie holds a 15 lb turkey very nicely. I do agree with Mama Mangia that they tend to be drier than an oven roasted turkey. But, having said that, I also think it has something to do with the bird itself. I say that because I have really good luck most of the time. We also get plenty of "bird juices" for our gravy, so I have no complaints on that part.
I have never had a problem with the 15lb Turkey not being done on the inside and too brown on the outside. Actually, they come out looking like a picture.
My rotisserie is a Ronco (set it and forget it) one and it works like a dream.
I have never had a problem with the 15lb Turkey not being done on the inside and too brown on the outside. Actually, they come out looking like a picture.
My rotisserie is a Ronco (set it and forget it) one and it works like a dream.