chubbyalaskagriz
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Jafo232
New member
Those who live by the DOW, die by it..
Just live your life.. Chances are, most of what happens in the stock market will not affect you.
This is NOT 1930. This is not even the same type of economy as 1930. The DOW was MUCH less after Sept 11th, in fact, it was lower than today on Sept 10th. On Sept 10 2001 the DOW was 9,605.50, and as I type right now, the DOW is at 11382.26.
Real estate has begun to shore up in many markets.
Productivity is higher than ever.
Unemployment is still at historic lows.
Much of what you are seeing are bubbles popping, but I suppose chicken littling is becoming an American past time these days.
jglass
New member
After going to the grocery store today I think I need a hug now.
I could see stuff had raised just since last time I was there a couple of weeks ago.
I blew through $250.00 pretty quick and didnt have near as much as I should have to show for it. I got 10 pounds of 80/20 ground chuck, 5 pounds of 83/7 ground turkey, 2 pounds peppered bacon, salmon, perch, breaded chicken pattys, grilled chicken filets, boneless skinless chicken breasts and 3 whole chickens to roast. I got cheese, milk and eggs and a few dry goods and some household stuff. By the time you buy a little meat and a few things to cook with like kosher salt and spices it adds up quick. I spent over $100 on laundry/cleaning stuff for the house and shampoo and stuff. Prices are going up but peoples income is not.
Last time I bought vital wheat gluten I paid less than $1 for it. Today it was $1.98 for the same box. Cooking oil is as much for a 48oz bottle as a gallon of gas costs.
Kroger's had salmon and perch for $9.99 for 2 1/2 pounds each if you had a Kroger shoppers card. It was $12.99 for each without the card. I took the time to sign up for one of their cards to get the discount.
Jon was like whats wrong with you..your all down in the dumps.
It is depressing to shop for anything
I could see stuff had raised just since last time I was there a couple of weeks ago.
I blew through $250.00 pretty quick and didnt have near as much as I should have to show for it. I got 10 pounds of 80/20 ground chuck, 5 pounds of 83/7 ground turkey, 2 pounds peppered bacon, salmon, perch, breaded chicken pattys, grilled chicken filets, boneless skinless chicken breasts and 3 whole chickens to roast. I got cheese, milk and eggs and a few dry goods and some household stuff. By the time you buy a little meat and a few things to cook with like kosher salt and spices it adds up quick. I spent over $100 on laundry/cleaning stuff for the house and shampoo and stuff. Prices are going up but peoples income is not.
Last time I bought vital wheat gluten I paid less than $1 for it. Today it was $1.98 for the same box. Cooking oil is as much for a 48oz bottle as a gallon of gas costs.
Kroger's had salmon and perch for $9.99 for 2 1/2 pounds each if you had a Kroger shoppers card. It was $12.99 for each without the card. I took the time to sign up for one of their cards to get the discount.
Jon was like whats wrong with you..your all down in the dumps.
It is depressing to shop for anything
CanMan
New member
This is all assuming of course that we, mankind, is fully responsible for everything that is going on in our world.....like global warming of course. Except I find it rather curious that the Planet Pluto, Jupitar, Mars and others are also experiencing unusual "global warming" just like Earth. Is mankind that influential? Think about it. Do a Google search "Global Warming on Pluto" and read for yourself.
Global Warming on Pluto Search
Global Warming on Pluto Search
K
KYHeirloomer
Guest
The thing to understand, Can Man, is that most industrialized people, Americans in particular, are only happy if they're crying mea culpa. So, if something goes wrong, and they can't blame themselves, then they'll find a way to make it their fault.
Me, I refuse to take responsibility or blame for something I didn't do.
The global warming issue is a case in point. First of all, there is no clear evidence that it is happening (changing weather patterns and global warming are not the same thing---something the newscasters and doomsday sayers don't understand). But let's assume it is. Fact is, the earth periodically readjusts itself. Notice that in addition to changes in weather patterns there is an unusually high level of earthquake activity; of volcanic activity; of storm frequency and severity; etc. This all happens cyclically. The only difference is that this time we happen to be in the way.
But the idea that we are causing it is sheer nonsense.
But the mea culpa syndrome is kind of understandable. When people can't understand what happened yesterday, the concept of deep time is totally incomprehensible to them. Somebody who thinks World War II was a long time ago is not prepared to understand that we live in a short, inter-glacial period. And that the moving ice is the result of a warming trend in the atmosphere. It's happened like that time after time---when humans weren't even around, let alone producing so-called greenhouse gasses.
Me, I refuse to take responsibility or blame for something I didn't do.
The global warming issue is a case in point. First of all, there is no clear evidence that it is happening (changing weather patterns and global warming are not the same thing---something the newscasters and doomsday sayers don't understand). But let's assume it is. Fact is, the earth periodically readjusts itself. Notice that in addition to changes in weather patterns there is an unusually high level of earthquake activity; of volcanic activity; of storm frequency and severity; etc. This all happens cyclically. The only difference is that this time we happen to be in the way.
But the idea that we are causing it is sheer nonsense.
But the mea culpa syndrome is kind of understandable. When people can't understand what happened yesterday, the concept of deep time is totally incomprehensible to them. Somebody who thinks World War II was a long time ago is not prepared to understand that we live in a short, inter-glacial period. And that the moving ice is the result of a warming trend in the atmosphere. It's happened like that time after time---when humans weren't even around, let alone producing so-called greenhouse gasses.
chubbyalaskagriz
New member
The data that supports the grim reality that as Americans we have the lagest footprint in the world, and that we both individually AND as a nation require far more of the world's resources, and leave behind far more evidence of our existance than people from other nations is unsettling. And embarrassing. I'm no tree-hugger and I can't tell ya the last time I ate a bowl of granola but I do think the rest of the world takes this more seriously than we do and they act far more responsibly than we. And I don't quite get where our sense of entitlement comes from. I think it's shameful and arrogant.
Jafo232
New member
If you look at the rest of the world, they by far pollute much more (on a per capita basis) than the US. They also use resources less efficiently.
Either way, there are those who have statistics showing global cooling. I for one am leery of any climate data that is less than 1 million years in the count. Considering the earth has been around for billions of years, it is rather foolish to make such assumptions with only about 100 years of accurate real time data to work with.
Anyway, if the world is on a path of destruction, and if it is caused by humans, history shows that we will all do nothing about it anyway. That being the case, none of it will keep me up at night.
Either way, there are those who have statistics showing global cooling. I for one am leery of any climate data that is less than 1 million years in the count. Considering the earth has been around for billions of years, it is rather foolish to make such assumptions with only about 100 years of accurate real time data to work with.
Anyway, if the world is on a path of destruction, and if it is caused by humans, history shows that we will all do nothing about it anyway. That being the case, none of it will keep me up at night.
CanMan
New member
Shame you didn't actually read the information I linked to and spent a moment to think outside the box called our planet.
The things going on (in our universe) places man's influence about the same as a colony of ants running around on the sidewalk. Quite interesting really when one takes the time to research it on the Internet.
chubbyalaskagriz
New member
RE: "If you look at the rest of the world, they by far pollute much more (on a per capita basis) than the US. They also use resources less efficiently."
Very respectfully Jafo, I could not disagree more. Not sure where you get your data but it's contrary to everything I've ever read or experienced personally. Everything from America's excess in consumerism, to cheap throw-away merchandise contributes in a much more ugly way than I've ever seen elsewhere.
For many years I led mentoring kitchens for Princess Cruiselines in BC and Alaska, where college-aged kids from all over the world worked for summer seasons and I can tell you that their practices of "living small" and "living green" are not just faddish college-aged trendiness, but habits, learned over a life-time. The hundreds of students who I've had under my wing cannot believe the excess, the throw-away and the blatant disregard we as Americans have for the very idea of joining the world in changing the way our offspring are conditioned to view our effects on the planet.
The very most telling sign that better, more responsible living is not an American habit- rather a trendy fad- is anytime it actually does occur, it makes the 6 o'clock headline news, every late-evening hour news program and weekend specials. Behaving properly with long-term possibility in mind is a dream to Americans- not a day-to-day reality like it is and has been elsewhere for decades. We've slowly made changes, but we're still dreadfully behind, as we are on many fronts. Whereas to the rest of the world living with a broader conscientuosness, living responsibly definitely dictates their every move day-in and day-out. The very fact that we are even discussing this in such an idealistic, mythical manner shows that the topic of our attention is clearly not an ever-present reality. We speak of it as if it's something completely unwitnessed by us, first-hand... something to aspire to.
Again, I'm no tree-hugger, tie-dye-wearin', hippy-dude... but we have been absolutely dreadful... and not to acknowledge that is part of the problem. If this is something you cannot agree with, then no sense even in replying, 'cause we certainly ain't gonna see eye-to-eye on it, one l'il bit.
Again, respectfully, if your experience is contrary to mine- I respect that, but not to post my view would be dreadfully misleading to those here who read yours. If there are two views- they must both be made available- and this is mine.
Very respectfully Jafo, I could not disagree more. Not sure where you get your data but it's contrary to everything I've ever read or experienced personally. Everything from America's excess in consumerism, to cheap throw-away merchandise contributes in a much more ugly way than I've ever seen elsewhere.
For many years I led mentoring kitchens for Princess Cruiselines in BC and Alaska, where college-aged kids from all over the world worked for summer seasons and I can tell you that their practices of "living small" and "living green" are not just faddish college-aged trendiness, but habits, learned over a life-time. The hundreds of students who I've had under my wing cannot believe the excess, the throw-away and the blatant disregard we as Americans have for the very idea of joining the world in changing the way our offspring are conditioned to view our effects on the planet.
The very most telling sign that better, more responsible living is not an American habit- rather a trendy fad- is anytime it actually does occur, it makes the 6 o'clock headline news, every late-evening hour news program and weekend specials. Behaving properly with long-term possibility in mind is a dream to Americans- not a day-to-day reality like it is and has been elsewhere for decades. We've slowly made changes, but we're still dreadfully behind, as we are on many fronts. Whereas to the rest of the world living with a broader conscientuosness, living responsibly definitely dictates their every move day-in and day-out. The very fact that we are even discussing this in such an idealistic, mythical manner shows that the topic of our attention is clearly not an ever-present reality. We speak of it as if it's something completely unwitnessed by us, first-hand... something to aspire to.
Again, I'm no tree-hugger, tie-dye-wearin', hippy-dude... but we have been absolutely dreadful... and not to acknowledge that is part of the problem. If this is something you cannot agree with, then no sense even in replying, 'cause we certainly ain't gonna see eye-to-eye on it, one l'il bit.
Again, respectfully, if your experience is contrary to mine- I respect that, but not to post my view would be dreadfully misleading to those here who read yours. If there are two views- they must both be made available- and this is mine.
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Jafo232
New member
Well, I guess we will have to decide whether anecdotes or facts are to be accepted:
The influence of European pollution on ozone in the Near East and northern Afric
Massive Pollution Documented Over Indian Ocean
Let us of course, not leave out our Chinese friends who are basically raping the world:
Environment of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
China's pollution nightmare is now everyone's pollution nightmare | csmonitor.com
http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/06/24...ay-chinas-olympic-dream-faces-pollution-woes/
Now if your going to compare the US with some remote African or South American tribe, that really isn't fair.
And all of this consumerism I think is a bit overblown. Sure, there are a few idiots out there who buy a 50'' plasma flat screen and throw it out a week later, but I think if you took a real sample of the average joe/janet in this country you would find that the waste is not as bad as the media makes it out to be.
The influence of European pollution on ozone in the Near East and northern Afric
Massive Pollution Documented Over Indian Ocean
Let us of course, not leave out our Chinese friends who are basically raping the world:
Environment of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
China's pollution nightmare is now everyone's pollution nightmare | csmonitor.com
http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/06/24...ay-chinas-olympic-dream-faces-pollution-woes/
Now if your going to compare the US with some remote African or South American tribe, that really isn't fair.
And all of this consumerism I think is a bit overblown. Sure, there are a few idiots out there who buy a 50'' plasma flat screen and throw it out a week later, but I think if you took a real sample of the average joe/janet in this country you would find that the waste is not as bad as the media makes it out to be.
chubbyalaskagriz
New member
America's waste is WORSE than our media makes it out to be. The majority of us shop at Wal-Mart to get the best price, where NOTHING is manufactured/sold with a presumed life of more than 3-5 years- not a shirt, not a camera, not a tire, not a dresser, not a TV.
Somewhere along the way prosperity ruined America. It's no longer acceptable to be poor. Coming up poor was once a virtue that built character and created backbone and strong work-etchic... America's BEST citizens were products of poor households. But today poverty is something we all speak of eliminating- as if its some dispicable, shameful disease.
What's more is, our American Dream was once a very modest "chicken in every pot, a car in every garage". NOW it's a styro-box of nuggets, a biggy fries w/ ketchup and a large soda in every pot, a SUV in every bay of our 4-stall garage and a computer, Sony PSP and MP3-Player in every kid's bedroom at the main house- and just a simple desk-top PC for community-use at the weekend place.
In Europe, South Africa, & Japan stores don't bag your purchased goods- it's presumed that shoppers will provide their own re-usable canvas totes- no Wal-Mart style plastic bags littering the country-side in Sweden, Germany or Switzerland.
America stands for BUY, BUY, BUY. And sooner or later every bit of this low-life CRAP we BUY goes to the land-fill, cause ain't NONE of it quality enough to last our life-time to pass-on to those we leave behind, anymore. Can you just imagine what a PBS broadcast of "Antiques Roadshow" will look like in the year 2108? WHAT in America that is produced today will still be around then to be called an antique? Nothing will, when goods are manufactured to survive only slightly longer than a very green banana!
The wool can't be pulled over my eyes- I live it and see it everyday. I've lived abroad, plus worked in the last pristine locale that North America has to offer. I know what clean is. I know what a horizon with no pollution looks like. And here in Illinois where I am now? There ain't NO SUCH THING. Not anymore, there ain't- one can drive for days and never find it.
Somewhere along the way prosperity ruined America. It's no longer acceptable to be poor. Coming up poor was once a virtue that built character and created backbone and strong work-etchic... America's BEST citizens were products of poor households. But today poverty is something we all speak of eliminating- as if its some dispicable, shameful disease.
What's more is, our American Dream was once a very modest "chicken in every pot, a car in every garage". NOW it's a styro-box of nuggets, a biggy fries w/ ketchup and a large soda in every pot, a SUV in every bay of our 4-stall garage and a computer, Sony PSP and MP3-Player in every kid's bedroom at the main house- and just a simple desk-top PC for community-use at the weekend place.
In Europe, South Africa, & Japan stores don't bag your purchased goods- it's presumed that shoppers will provide their own re-usable canvas totes- no Wal-Mart style plastic bags littering the country-side in Sweden, Germany or Switzerland.
America stands for BUY, BUY, BUY. And sooner or later every bit of this low-life CRAP we BUY goes to the land-fill, cause ain't NONE of it quality enough to last our life-time to pass-on to those we leave behind, anymore. Can you just imagine what a PBS broadcast of "Antiques Roadshow" will look like in the year 2108? WHAT in America that is produced today will still be around then to be called an antique? Nothing will, when goods are manufactured to survive only slightly longer than a very green banana!
The wool can't be pulled over my eyes- I live it and see it everyday. I've lived abroad, plus worked in the last pristine locale that North America has to offer. I know what clean is. I know what a horizon with no pollution looks like. And here in Illinois where I am now? There ain't NO SUCH THING. Not anymore, there ain't- one can drive for days and never find it.
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chubbyalaskagriz
New member
I can post links to "researched, factual writings by fair & impartial unbiased sources" too, Jafo...
In fact, in ten minutes I had skimmed and cut/paste a dozen links to offer here to support my various points... but I realized it was just too easy- for both you AND I to play this titt-for-tatt game of seeing who could come up with the most pieces to sustain their point.
I will offer a link to only ONE piece, and diplomatically, it agrees partly with BOTH you AND I. Here's the link:
Poverty is the worst polluter - Helium
The article above states these very interesting facts:
1.) None of the world's top ten worst polluted cities are in the U.S.
2.) Sixteen of the world's top twenty heaviest polluted cities are in China.
3.) Only TWO of the world's THIRTY-FIVE heaviest polluted cities are in the U.S. and they are Hanford, CT. and New Orleans, LA.
The article proves much of what you claim to be correct, Jafo- so where does that leave me and my views?
Well, that all depends on your view of personal responsibility. Do YOU feel you have gone to great lengths to reduce any negative impact you make? I don't feel I personally have done nearly enough.
Do YOU feel it's not your responsibility to do more, go to greater lengths and make much bigger effort at going green and in stewarding our environment both locally and nationally? I definitely feel it's MY responsibility.
Do you feel your descendents 50, 100, 200, 500 years down the road will look back and not have a single sad, shameful or embarrassing thought about the habits you personally exhibited and the practices you personally took part in to leave them a safer, cleaner, more pristine environment?
Are you likely going to leave this country better & cleaner than you found it? Is this even a concern on any level?
Only YOU can answer these questions, Jafo. I've answered them for myself and I'm not at all content with the outcome of my own reality- but I still have time to make a better impact, and I intend to.
I see American individuals as far behind those of other nations. I've seen with my own eyes 200 European kids AFFECT 200 American kids to significant CHANGE and IMPROVED habits and behavior.
I worked on Alaska's northermost coast along the Beaufort Sea smack-dab in the middle of the Prudhoe Bay oil fields and I marvelled at the stewardship the companies up there practice. I am 110% FOR drilling in ANWR simply BECAUSE I have seen first hand how it is and can continue to be done safely, responsibly, cleanly. The tree-huggers make my skin crawl when they picket and protest and get all stupid and make the claims they falsely make. But I feel this way ONLY because I have witnessed the HARD WORK and TREMENDOUS EFFORT made by industry up north. And I won't stand still and listen to anybody say that their efforts haven't made an incredible difference. That would be an insulting thumb in the eye to all those who make the effort every 16-hour day they put in up there.
We've covered much ground just since I was a young boy in the 60's and 70's, and have made many changes but it would be dangerous to say we've come as far as we need to and that all efforts should slow down or stop.
If any American feels it's not their problem- not their fault- not their duty to play a part in creating change, that's something I won't take the time to argue with because it takes too much effort in a world that requires so much from us already, for far more deserving causes.
One final thought: In America (and rarely anywhere else) environmental conscientiousness tends to be a partisan issue. If one looks out across the land, they can practically SEE folks wearing RED t-shirts caring in one manner, and folks wearing BLUE t-shirts caring in a very different manner. I don't wish to argue this point and all the politics that it might entail- but my question is simply: Why do you think this is? Or do you disagree? In my view one only need listen to talk radio to determine that the extreme far-right pundits play a role, and exhibit an attitude that screams "There ain't no problem, we ain't got nothing to fix, and this country-side's fine just the way it is". And if you disagree just give a quick 15-minute listen to Rush L., Glen B., Sean H., Michael R., Bill O., G. Gordon L. or ANY of them. They think anyone who picks their discarded cigar-butt up off the street is a NUT-JOB! Well, not me, Jafo. Not me.
In fact, in ten minutes I had skimmed and cut/paste a dozen links to offer here to support my various points... but I realized it was just too easy- for both you AND I to play this titt-for-tatt game of seeing who could come up with the most pieces to sustain their point.
I will offer a link to only ONE piece, and diplomatically, it agrees partly with BOTH you AND I. Here's the link:
Poverty is the worst polluter - Helium
The article above states these very interesting facts:
1.) None of the world's top ten worst polluted cities are in the U.S.
2.) Sixteen of the world's top twenty heaviest polluted cities are in China.
3.) Only TWO of the world's THIRTY-FIVE heaviest polluted cities are in the U.S. and they are Hanford, CT. and New Orleans, LA.
The article proves much of what you claim to be correct, Jafo- so where does that leave me and my views?
Well, that all depends on your view of personal responsibility. Do YOU feel you have gone to great lengths to reduce any negative impact you make? I don't feel I personally have done nearly enough.
Do YOU feel it's not your responsibility to do more, go to greater lengths and make much bigger effort at going green and in stewarding our environment both locally and nationally? I definitely feel it's MY responsibility.
Do you feel your descendents 50, 100, 200, 500 years down the road will look back and not have a single sad, shameful or embarrassing thought about the habits you personally exhibited and the practices you personally took part in to leave them a safer, cleaner, more pristine environment?
Are you likely going to leave this country better & cleaner than you found it? Is this even a concern on any level?
Only YOU can answer these questions, Jafo. I've answered them for myself and I'm not at all content with the outcome of my own reality- but I still have time to make a better impact, and I intend to.
I see American individuals as far behind those of other nations. I've seen with my own eyes 200 European kids AFFECT 200 American kids to significant CHANGE and IMPROVED habits and behavior.
I worked on Alaska's northermost coast along the Beaufort Sea smack-dab in the middle of the Prudhoe Bay oil fields and I marvelled at the stewardship the companies up there practice. I am 110% FOR drilling in ANWR simply BECAUSE I have seen first hand how it is and can continue to be done safely, responsibly, cleanly. The tree-huggers make my skin crawl when they picket and protest and get all stupid and make the claims they falsely make. But I feel this way ONLY because I have witnessed the HARD WORK and TREMENDOUS EFFORT made by industry up north. And I won't stand still and listen to anybody say that their efforts haven't made an incredible difference. That would be an insulting thumb in the eye to all those who make the effort every 16-hour day they put in up there.
We've covered much ground just since I was a young boy in the 60's and 70's, and have made many changes but it would be dangerous to say we've come as far as we need to and that all efforts should slow down or stop.
If any American feels it's not their problem- not their fault- not their duty to play a part in creating change, that's something I won't take the time to argue with because it takes too much effort in a world that requires so much from us already, for far more deserving causes.
One final thought: In America (and rarely anywhere else) environmental conscientiousness tends to be a partisan issue. If one looks out across the land, they can practically SEE folks wearing RED t-shirts caring in one manner, and folks wearing BLUE t-shirts caring in a very different manner. I don't wish to argue this point and all the politics that it might entail- but my question is simply: Why do you think this is? Or do you disagree? In my view one only need listen to talk radio to determine that the extreme far-right pundits play a role, and exhibit an attitude that screams "There ain't no problem, we ain't got nothing to fix, and this country-side's fine just the way it is". And if you disagree just give a quick 15-minute listen to Rush L., Glen B., Sean H., Michael R., Bill O., G. Gordon L. or ANY of them. They think anyone who picks their discarded cigar-butt up off the street is a NUT-JOB! Well, not me, Jafo. Not me.
K
KYHeirloomer
Guest
You guys can argue this all day, but I'm not getting into the middle of what is, at base, an emotional argument.
However, I do have to make one correction. Chubby, I growed up dirt poor. And it's no virtue, thank you very much.
Has it made me a better person as an adult? I'll leave that determination to others. But, when you're scrambling every minute just to survivie, there's no time left to worry about bigger issues.
Like art, big-picture concerns require free time. And that's something poor people don't have.
However, I do have to make one correction. Chubby, I growed up dirt poor. And it's no virtue, thank you very much.
Has it made me a better person as an adult? I'll leave that determination to others. But, when you're scrambling every minute just to survivie, there's no time left to worry about bigger issues.
Like art, big-picture concerns require free time. And that's something poor people don't have.
chubbyalaskagriz
New member
Points respectfully well-taken, Brook...
But my larger point was poverty is no sin. And it's probably been the single largest contributor to success ever. I'd venture to say there are those whose greatest early asset was having nothing. Had they something, they may never have amounted to anything at all.
But my larger point was poverty is no sin. And it's probably been the single largest contributor to success ever. I'd venture to say there are those whose greatest early asset was having nothing. Had they something, they may never have amounted to anything at all.
CanMan
New member
Interesting. I have no idea what that has to do with what's going on in the world.
Thank you for implying I'm not poor. Since the nice electric people recently gave me a beautiful new refrigerator so I could keep from poisoning myself, I guess I really am rich, but I don't use being poor as an excuse not to exercise my brain about life and what's going on in it.
But you are correct. There is too much emotion being released on this thread and the thread should be ended. Personally I just try to provide factual information to be read for what its worth.
chubbyalaskagriz
New member
Good Morning CanMan,
...and Happy Thursday. Please allow me to introduce myself... I'm chubbyalaskagriz- or Kevin.
I'm accustomed to sharing a level of familiarization with someone who critiques a post I've contributed, or recommends I discontinue a conversation I've just joined. Don't know where my manners are- nor what I was thinking!
There-you know my name- now I feel better about your remarks.
...and Happy Thursday. Please allow me to introduce myself... I'm chubbyalaskagriz- or Kevin.
I'm accustomed to sharing a level of familiarization with someone who critiques a post I've contributed, or recommends I discontinue a conversation I've just joined. Don't know where my manners are- nor what I was thinking!
There-you know my name- now I feel better about your remarks.
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K
KYHeirloomer
Guest
>But my larger point was poverty is no sin.<
Maybe not. But as Tevya (in Fiddler On The Roof) said to God: It's no blessing either.
Maybe not. But as Tevya (in Fiddler On The Roof) said to God: It's no blessing either.
S
StickyPirate
Guest
Woo-hoo! I LOVE this kind of conversation. We NEED this kind of dialogue right now.
It is so fascinating how environmental concerns seem to fall along party lines. I can't understand how people who claim to worship the Creator treat His creation so cavalierly (is cavalierly a word?). I know many good people who roll their eyes and scoff at the very mention of global warming. Why is that? I've become so cynical that I believe they've been sold a line by politicians who are in the pockets of big oil, big manufacturing, big etc.
I come from the right ... my family are all conservative traditional religious folks. I love them but I'm over it. I love Jesus with all my heart but I believe he wants me to think with my brain, not my jerking knee. My bottom lines are ... I love humans (let's take care of them the best we can) and I love the Creation (let's take care of it the best we can too).
About poverty...it's not glamorous or romantic. The kind of poverty that should be eradicated is what Bono calls stupid poverty...grinding, dehumanizing, oppressive, can't-feed-your-kids poverty. It's our responsibility to reach out to our fellow humans and SHARE.
I know, I know. Idealistic young mommy states the obvious. Don't bite my head off...but what are all of your thoughts?
It is so fascinating how environmental concerns seem to fall along party lines. I can't understand how people who claim to worship the Creator treat His creation so cavalierly (is cavalierly a word?). I know many good people who roll their eyes and scoff at the very mention of global warming. Why is that? I've become so cynical that I believe they've been sold a line by politicians who are in the pockets of big oil, big manufacturing, big etc.
I come from the right ... my family are all conservative traditional religious folks. I love them but I'm over it. I love Jesus with all my heart but I believe he wants me to think with my brain, not my jerking knee. My bottom lines are ... I love humans (let's take care of them the best we can) and I love the Creation (let's take care of it the best we can too).
About poverty...it's not glamorous or romantic. The kind of poverty that should be eradicated is what Bono calls stupid poverty...grinding, dehumanizing, oppressive, can't-feed-your-kids poverty. It's our responsibility to reach out to our fellow humans and SHARE.
I know, I know. Idealistic young mommy states the obvious. Don't bite my head off...but what are all of your thoughts?
CanMan
New member
Okay, We are familiar. I'm CanMan and known to my friends as McNerd, but what remarks did I respond to that were yours?